The Garrison-Martineau Project

(a.k.a. The Conversation Mother Warned You About!)

A Project Fostering Understanding Between Believers and Non-Believers

The Conversation Mother Warned You About - by Chris Lindstrom

Under normal circumstances, it would be hard to imagine that the small groups huddled in every corner of the auditorium were discussing religion and politics -- the two taboo subjects every mother warns her child against discussing in public. But these were not normal circumstances. In one group, Pastor Dan explained how his wild-child adolescence along with a near miss on a motorcycle combined to create a powerful sense of God's presence in his life. David, a former southern Baptist, described how he no longer looked at people as divided into two camps, those headed for heaven and those headed for hell. "Since becoming an atheist," he said, "I just see people." In another group, Melissa described her journey through the Christian sub-culture of Baylor University in the Bible belt and how she began to become aware that many of her Christian friends treated outsiders in a way she could not support.

Listening to all of this, I wondered why it was that self-discovery and a burgeoning empathy for others was, for Melissa, a part of her "relationship with Jesus" while for David and myself, it was only possible once Jesus had been forcibly ejected. I wondered if I would have drawn different conclusions if I had had Pastor Dan's experience. I listened to Pastor Rich describe his surprise in seminary upon being told the first 12 books of the Bible were not literally true. I wondered why he was still a believer when the same information had turned me onto an opposite path. I winced as Dominic expressed dismay at the lack of respect atheists felt for the country's "Christian heritage", and yet, at the same time, I could hear an underlying desire for respect, a desire the atheist community, locked in its own search for respectability can understand.

Negotiating abortion, death with dignity, public funding, vouchers and even more general political public policy issues is never easy. All are subjects about which we have strong opinions, which relate to our own sense of morality and our desire for a positive future for ourselves, our friends and our family. Living together with difference is not easy, but surely conversion and conformity cannot be the only answer! Despite mother's warning not to mix religion and politics with Aunt Edna's Thanksgiving potatoes, dialogue need not lead to indigestion.

The first spark of the idea of facilitating dialogue for individual atheists and believers came to me after one of my less-than-stellar video rental selections: Sister Mary Tells All. The plot follows an atheist who returns to a special reunion Christmas pageant at the Catholic school of her girlhood with a "revised script" intended to shake things up. During the ensuing firestorm, the nun turns to the atheist and asks her, "I don't understand. You were my protege. What happened to you?"

Her response floored me. Still on stage, the atheist turns to the nun and literally screams at her, "You filled my head with lies and I believed them"

You filled my head with lies and I believed them.

And then, I went out into the world and discovered that that wasn't the way things were. Wow! Could I relate to that sentiment. Made me want to do a little sympathetic screaming of my own.

But then something interesting happened. The nun turned to the audience and asked them how many of them had been in her class. Almost all of them raised their hands. These were parents who were now sending their children to her class.

In the movie, these two groups of people just stared one another. The atheist couldn't figure out why anyone in their right mind would inflict Sister Mary on their children and the parents couldn't figure out what had made this freaky atheist so angry. I began to wonder how it was that these two groups of people who had gone through the same schooling experience had somehow gotten different perceptions of that experience. It seemed to me that they were not really so different from each other. They had, after all, started out in the same place. What would have happened if they had been able to talk to each other?

Is it possible for me to understand why my sister, who considers herself a feminist, can still attend a fundamentalist Baptist church? Is it possible for believers to understand why "under god" in the pledge of allegiance is alienating to atheists? Is it possible for me to understand how it was my parents could consider Sunday school a positive experience? Is it possible for them to understand that I experienced it differently? Is it possible that sharing our experiences with Christian parents will help them allow their freethinking children a wider berth and avoid the stifling experiences some of us suffered?

It is possible. The Garrison-Martineau Project has facilitated small group dialogue between ordinary believers and nonbelievers since June of 2002. Over 70 people have participated so far in at least one of the 5 half-day sessions which have been held in the San Francisco bay area. Sessions break into small groups with 2 nonbelievers and 2 believers apiece. A trained facilitator sits with each group and helps them focus discussion on their own experiences and how those experiences shaped their views and concerns. Putting a human face on atheism provides an opportunity to ratchet down the angst and anger of the culture war and improve civic discourse. While I do not expect people to develop sympathy for the political proposals of "the other side", I do hope to foment empathy for the human fear, anger and hope which lie behind such proposals as a first step to encouraging creative solutions acknowledging all of us.

In the last session, for the first time in my life, I heard a Christian evangelical pastor articulate the atheist sentiment without distorting us. He said, "For me, it's about how you treat other people. I figure, if God is real, then treating others well is important and if God doesn't exist, then treating others well is vitally important." For the atheists in my group, hearing his words helped to take a bit of the edge off of the alienation and isolation we feel. But long term, this is an opportunity not just to feel less alienated, but to create a world where we are no longer alienated, a world where atheists, humanists and other minorities are seen as mainstream, integral members of the community whose concerns need to be acknowledged. How? By having this conversation enough times in enough places with enough people. This is clearly a long term project, perhaps even a generation-long project, which only makes it all the more important to start now! I named this project after William Lloyd Garrison and Harriet Martineau, two remarkable social activists from the 1800s whose friendship despite differences in gender and theology continue to inspire. Today, I want to invite you to join with me in the Garrison-Martineau Project and work with me in cultivating the next generation of Garrisons and Martineaus. No audience. No barriers. No time like the present. One conversation at a time.

Chris Lindstrom is the former secretary of Atheists of Silicon Valley and is now the founder and Coordinator of The Garrison-Martineau Project. Her dream is of a world where a Garrison-Martineau conversation is taking place every day, somewhere in the world. She is looking for atheist leaders interested in hosting a Garrison-Martineau session in their neck of the woods. Please see www.garrison-martineau.com for more.